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"Bart Ball" has played for a state title in the last 10-15 years.
Curtis has a very solid resume. Highlited by winninga Regional at New Prairie back when winning a Regional at New Prairie was unheard of. Coached Mishawaka to their only Semi-State win in 2012 as they went straight to the '74 State Championship after beating Portage in the 1st round. He's also coached Warsaw to the only Sectional Title in school history.
It looks like Curtis runs the flexbone. I remember LC punishing teams back in your day with Britton and the flexbone.
Warsaw beating Carroll was a shocker. The Tigers just squeaked by two mediocre DAC teams earlier in the year. Either Carroll played their worst game possible or this is an indictment on the level of play in the SAC this year.
I’ll take Penn. I think they’ve been kinda slept on throughout the state this year. They’ve got 6 shutouts this year, and while they haven’t been against the best completion, that shows me Penn is still taking care of business like they should be. Valpo and Mishawaka are solid non conference wins too.
Think we’ll see CP vs Penn and in that one I’d have to go with Penn. I would like to see Warsaw pull another shocker as I think they’re a better matchup for CP but I doubt that’s going to happen.
NLCTigerFan07 on the GID is a level headed poster who has been around the GID for years and he said Warsaw played their best game of complete football in years. Warsaw had the ball first in the 2nd half and went on a 19 play 12:04 drive that ended in a TD. Carroll then threw an INT on the following drive and Warsaw scored again to put a nail in the coffin. Seems like 2 things killed the Chargers:
1. They couldn't stop Bart Ball which leads to a ton of clock being burned
2. Their QB threw 2 INT's that were devasting
I've watched a few Carroll games and though their JR QB is really good (multiple D1 offers already) he had a tendancy to go Brett Favre and try to make something out of nothing. Against Snider he threw TWO pick sixes within the final minute of the 1st half.
NLCTigerFan07 also mentioned that Warsaw went 8-1 with their backup QB and the offense looked better against Carroll with the week 1 starter back in the lineup. He got hurt against Michigan City and has been out since.
I agree completely about Penn. 2 Solid wins against 5A contenders and they've beaten everyone they should by margins you would expect. The perception problem is they came down to Indy for their biggest game (Cathedral) and were beated very badly. It was 35-0 at halftime and Cathedral called off the dogs. I think they would be a very hard win for Crown Point. Get to Semi-State and they have another shot to right the script against a Hamilton County school.
You watch the Ben Davis / Brownsburg game? What an awful way to lose for the 'Dogs. 25-7 lead with 9 minutes to go and Brownsburg throws directly at Mark Zachary who will be one of the state's top recruits next year. It was an easy pick 6 that got Ben Davis back in the game and the rest was history. The Corner already has offers from Ohio State, Michigan, Georgia and ND has a Junior. You can't throw at him with a 25-7 lead in the 4th quarter. Unreal!
SAC teams seem to struggle with physical run offenses. Last year Mishawaka jumped on Snider 21-0 before the Panthers were able to come back. Then the next week they got ran over by Valpo.
I think Penn is also underrated because the narrative around the program right now is that they are a shell of their former selves (somewhat true). But the truth is they are still easily a top 15 team in the state. The next two games project pretty winnable for them against Warsaw and CP. Not sure if they’ll have the firepower to beat Westfield/Fishers/HSE though.
I saw the score in that game was 25-7 in the 4th and thought it was over, but then I tuned in anyway. It was 25-21 and BD had the ball. I knew then that the Giants were going to win with Brownsburg’s history of choking, and on that drive they scored. Then the BD pass rush took over. Pretty brutal loss for John Hart and co. The chokers narrative has never been stronger. But the team will inevitably break through at some point.
Good point regarding the SAC. I watch a lot of their marquee games on the Summit City Sports Network. A majority of the teams like to spread it out and throw it around. Valpo and Lowell have both won some recent Semi-State battles against the SAC with a phyiscal run game.
Agreed regarding Penn being a Top 15 team. They're no longer the program that can come down to Indy in November and beat Ben Davis, but they're still a really good program. Part of their problem is the programs you listed (Westfield/Fishers/HSE) have caught up to Penn in enrollment and talent. Back in '97 HSE was getting a beatdown by Griffith in the 4A State Title game while Penn was still a State Title contender in 5A.
Brownsburg will definately break through at some point. Too much talent in their system whether homegrown or moving across Indy/Brownsburg boundaries from the Ben Davis school district. Youth sports are huge in Brownsburg. It's a perfect system for Hart. He has a plethora of talent to work with that has been well coached/trained for years prior to hitting HS. He's won State at Evansville Reitz and Warren Central. Just can't get over the hump at Brownsburg. I'm curious to see if his son coaching down at Gibson Southern ever decides to leave 3A for a 6A school. He and Kyle Ralph would be at the top of my list if I were a Central Indiana AD. Ralph was an All ACC OL at North Carolina. The lines he builds at New Pal are crazy good. The OL he could build somewhere like Carmel would be very impressive.
"Bart Ball" has played for a state title in the last 10-15 years.
Curtis has a very solid resume. Highlited by winninga Regional at New Prairie back when winning a Regional at New Prairie was unheard of. Coached Mishawaka to their only Semi-State win in 2012 as they went straight to the '74 State Championship after beating Portage in the 1st round. He's also coached Warsaw to the only Sectional Title in school history.
It looks like Curtis runs the flexbone. I remember LC punishing teams back in your day with Britton and the flexbone.
99.9% correct
We ran the Wing-T (A LOT of the same principles as a flexbone) when I played for Coach Britton at LC.
NLCTigerFan07 on the GID is a level headed poster who has been around the GID for years and he said Warsaw played their best game of complete football in years. Warsaw had the ball first in the 2nd half and went on a 19 play 12:04 drive that ended in a TD. Carroll then threw an INT on the following drive and Warsaw scored again to put a nail in the coffin. Seems like 2 things killed the Chargers:
1. They couldn't stop Bart Ball which leads to a ton of clock being burned
2. Their QB threw 2 INT's that were devasting
I've watched a few Carroll games and though their JR QB is really good (multiple D1 offers already) he had a tendancy to go Brett Favre and try to make something out of nothing. Against Snider he threw TWO pick sixes within the final minute of the 1st half.
NLCTigerFan07 also mentioned that Warsaw went 8-1 with their backup QB and the offense looked better against Carroll with the week 1 starter back in the lineup. He got hurt against Michigan City and has been out since.
I agree completely about Penn. 2 Solid wins against 5A contenders and they've beaten everyone they should by margins you would expect. The perception problem is they came down to Indy for their biggest game (Cathedral) and were beated very badly. It was 35-0 at halftime and Cathedral called off the dogs. I think they would be a very hard win for Crown Point. Get to Semi-State and they have another shot to right the script against a Hamilton County school.
You watch the Ben Davis / Brownsburg game? What an awful way to lose for the 'Dogs. 25-7 lead with 9 minutes to go and Brownsburg throws directly at Mark Zachary who will be one of the state's top recruits next year. It was an easy pick 6 that got Ben Davis back in the game and the rest was history. The Corner already has offers from Ohio State, Michigan, Georgia and ND has a Junior. You can't throw at him with a 25-7 lead in the 4th quarter. Unreal!
SAC teams seem to struggle with physical run offenses. Last year Mishawaka jumped on Snider 21-0 before the Panthers were able to come back. Then the next week they got ran over by Valpo.
I think Penn is also underrated because the narrative around the program right now is that they are a shell of their former selves (somewhat true). But the truth is they are still easily a top 15 team in the state. The next two games project pretty winnable for them against Warsaw and CP. Not sure if they’ll have the firepower to beat Westfield/Fishers/HSE though.
I saw the score in that game was 25-7 in the 4th and thought it was over, but then I tuned in anyway. It was 25-21 and BD had the ball. I knew then that the Giants were going to win with Brownsburg’s history of choking, and on that drive they scored. Then the BD pass rush took over. Pretty brutal loss for John Hart and co. The chokers narrative has never been stronger. But the team will inevitably break through at some point.
Good point regarding the SAC. I watch a lot of their marquee games on the Summit City Sports Network. A majority of the teams like to spread it out and throw it around. Valpo and Lowell have both won some recent Semi-State battles against the SAC with a phyiscal run game.
Agreed regarding Penn being a Top 15 team. They're no longer the program that can come down to Indy in November and beat Ben Davis, but they're still a really good program. Part of their problem is the programs you listed (Westfield/Fishers/HSE) have caught up to Penn in enrollment and talent. Back in '97 HSE was getting a beatdown by Griffith in the 4A State Title game while Penn was still a State Title contender in 5A.
Brownsburg will definately break through at some point. Too much talent in their system whether homegrown or moving across Indy/Brownsburg boundaries from the Ben Davis school district. Youth sports are huge in Brownsburg. It's a perfect system for Hart. He has a plethora of talent to work with that has been well coached/trained for years prior to hitting HS. He's won State at Evansville Reitz and Warren Central. Just can't get over the hump at Brownsburg. I'm curious to see if his son coaching down at Gibson Southern ever decides to leave 3A for a 6A school. He and Kyle Ralph would be at the top of my list if I were a Central Indiana AD. Ralph was an All ACC OL at North Carolina. The lines he builds at New Pal are crazy good. The OL he could build somewhere like Carmel would be very impressive.
If I had to bet I would say Nick Hart will end up coaching a 6A Indy area team at some point before he retires. Coach Ralph I think is at New Pal for life. I’d be shocked if he hasn’t already been offered pretty much a blank check by some of the big schools when jobs have came up. But I agree that he could turn some of those schools into complete juggernauts like what he has done at New Pal.
We’ll likely get another DAC vs SAC matchup in the 5A semi state, so we’ll see how it plays out. The Snider guys over on GID seem to think they’ve already got it won, but those guys have an overinflated opinion of Fort Wayne area football in general.
I think it would be funny with all the talk of Penn’s demise if they made a surprise run to LOS. They’d have no shot to win it, but would be ironic with the narratives around the program currently.
The ‘97 4A title game shows just how much can change in 25 years. Griffith is now a mediocre at best 3A team and HSE is a 6A power and one of the best teams in the state. HSE could beat them by 100 if they played right now if they wanted to.
Also I’ll say I think LC would be better off going back to an option/Wing-T style offense. They’ve run the spread for years now and have seemingly always had mediocre offenses with it (this goes for many DAC teams and could be part of a larger discussion). Implement the flexbone/Wing-T in the middle school and youth levels. Get some continuity in the program and build it from the ground up Center Grove style. But from what I’ve heard about things over there I doubt this will ever happen.
SAC teams seem to struggle with physical run offenses. Last year Mishawaka jumped on Snider 21-0 before the Panthers were able to come back. Then the next week they got ran over by Valpo.
I think Penn is also underrated because the narrative around the program right now is that they are a shell of their former selves (somewhat true). But the truth is they are still easily a top 15 team in the state. The next two games project pretty winnable for them against Warsaw and CP. Not sure if they’ll have the firepower to beat Westfield/Fishers/HSE though.
I saw the score in that game was 25-7 in the 4th and thought it was over, but then I tuned in anyway. It was 25-21 and BD had the ball. I knew then that the Giants were going to win with Brownsburg’s history of choking, and on that drive they scored. Then the BD pass rush took over. Pretty brutal loss for John Hart and co. The chokers narrative has never been stronger. But the team will inevitably break through at some point.
Good point regarding the SAC. I watch a lot of their marquee games on the Summit City Sports Network. A majority of the teams like to spread it out and throw it around. Valpo and Lowell have both won some recent Semi-State battles against the SAC with a phyiscal run game.
Agreed regarding Penn being a Top 15 team. They're no longer the program that can come down to Indy in November and beat Ben Davis, but they're still a really good program. Part of their problem is the programs you listed (Westfield/Fishers/HSE) have caught up to Penn in enrollment and talent. Back in '97 HSE was getting a beatdown by Griffith in the 4A State Title game while Penn was still a State Title contender in 5A.
Brownsburg will definately break through at some point. Too much talent in their system whether homegrown or moving across Indy/Brownsburg boundaries from the Ben Davis school district. Youth sports are huge in Brownsburg. It's a perfect system for Hart. He has a plethora of talent to work with that has been well coached/trained for years prior to hitting HS. He's won State at Evansville Reitz and Warren Central. Just can't get over the hump at Brownsburg. I'm curious to see if his son coaching down at Gibson Southern ever decides to leave 3A for a 6A school. He and Kyle Ralph would be at the top of my list if I were a Central Indiana AD. Ralph was an All ACC OL at North Carolina. The lines he builds at New Pal are crazy good. The OL he could build somewhere like Carmel would be very impressive.
Also I’ll say I think LC would be better off going back to an option/Wing-T style offense. They’ve run the spread for years now and have seemingly always had mediocre offenses with it (this goes for many DAC teams and could be part of a larger discussion). Implement the flexbone/Wing-T in the middle school and youth levels. Get some continuity in the program and build it from the ground up Center Grove style. But from what I’ve heard about things over there I doubt this will ever happen.
Care to elaborate more on what DAC teams you think would benefit from a Wing T/option attack?
Good point regarding the SAC. I watch a lot of their marquee games on the Summit City Sports Network. A majority of the teams like to spread it out and throw it around. Valpo and Lowell have both won some recent Semi-State battles against the SAC with a phyiscal run game.
Agreed regarding Penn being a Top 15 team. They're no longer the program that can come down to Indy in November and beat Ben Davis, but they're still a really good program. Part of their problem is the programs you listed (Westfield/Fishers/HSE) have caught up to Penn in enrollment and talent. Back in '97 HSE was getting a beatdown by Griffith in the 4A State Title game while Penn was still a State Title contender in 5A.
Brownsburg will definately break through at some point. Too much talent in their system whether homegrown or moving across Indy/Brownsburg boundaries from the Ben Davis school district. Youth sports are huge in Brownsburg. It's a perfect system for Hart. He has a plethora of talent to work with that has been well coached/trained for years prior to hitting HS. He's won State at Evansville Reitz and Warren Central. Just can't get over the hump at Brownsburg. I'm curious to see if his son coaching down at Gibson Southern ever decides to leave 3A for a 6A school. He and Kyle Ralph would be at the top of my list if I were a Central Indiana AD. Ralph was an All ACC OL at North Carolina. The lines he builds at New Pal are crazy good. The OL he could build somewhere like Carmel would be very impressive.
Also I’ll say I think LC would be better off going back to an option/Wing-T style offense. They’ve run the spread for years now and have seemingly always had mediocre offenses with it (this goes for many DAC teams and could be part of a larger discussion). Implement the flexbone/Wing-T in the middle school and youth levels. Get some continuity in the program and build it from the ground up Center Grove style. But from what I’ve heard about things over there I doubt this will ever happen.
Care to elaborate more on what DAC teams you think would benefit from a Wing T/option attack?
LaPorte/LC/Portage.
City and Merrillville will have the athletes on the outside to run the spread. Chesterton has proven they can throw the ball around (even if their run game is seemingly always bad and not physical). CP runs the spread but has run a lot of Wing-T and Single Wing concepts out of the gun this year for success. Valpo runs the spread but runs the ball north of 75% of the time I would guess. These last two teams also have giant lines to facilitate this.
The three I listed don't have the advantage either in the trenches or in skill positions like the other schools do, and the offenses I am proposing tend to mitigate these issues.
Even though they are still struggling in the NCC, Munster has been much more competitive since implementing the Flexbone. Their issues now lie with depth as opposed to being a competent football team. I think similar things would happen at any of those schools were they to pick up that offense.
Penn has some good speed at QB and RB. They ripped off some long runs against Valpo. Valpo is a different team now. They have #45,#11, and #48 play a lot more for Valpo in the front 7 now. But I think Penn vs. Crown Point is going to be a really good game. Can’t wait to watch it. That’s my prediction for the regional. I’d take CP in a close game.
Penn has some good speed at QB and RB. They ripped off some long runs against Valpo. Valpo is a different team now. They have #45,#11, and #48 play a lot more for Valpo in the front 7 now. But I think Penn vs. Crown Point is going to be a really good game. Can’t wait to watch it. That’s my prediction for the regional. I’d take CP in a close game.
SAC teams seem to struggle with physical run offenses. Last year Mishawaka jumped on Snider 21-0 before the Panthers were able to come back. Then the next week they got ran over by Valpo.
I think Penn is also underrated because the narrative around the program right now is that they are a shell of their former selves (somewhat true). But the truth is they are still easily a top 15 team in the state. The next two games project pretty winnable for them against Warsaw and CP. Not sure if they’ll have the firepower to beat Westfield/Fishers/HSE though.
I saw the score in that game was 25-7 in the 4th and thought it was over, but then I tuned in anyway. It was 25-21 and BD had the ball. I knew then that the Giants were going to win with Brownsburg’s history of choking, and on that drive they scored. Then the BD pass rush took over. Pretty brutal loss for John Hart and co. The chokers narrative has never been stronger. But the team will inevitably break through at some point.
Good point regarding the SAC. I watch a lot of their marquee games on the Summit City Sports Network. A majority of the teams like to spread it out and throw it around. Valpo and Lowell have both won some recent Semi-State battles against the SAC with a phyiscal run game.
Agreed regarding Penn being a Top 15 team. They're no longer the program that can come down to Indy in November and beat Ben Davis, but they're still a really good program. Part of their problem is the programs you listed (Westfield/Fishers/HSE) have caught up to Penn in enrollment and talent. Back in '97 HSE was getting a beatdown by Griffith in the 4A State Title game while Penn was still a State Title contender in 5A.
Brownsburg will definately break through at some point. Too much talent in their system whether homegrown or moving across Indy/Brownsburg boundaries from the Ben Davis school district. Youth sports are huge in Brownsburg. It's a perfect system for Hart. He has a plethora of talent to work with that has been well coached/trained for years prior to hitting HS. He's won State at Evansville Reitz and Warren Central. Just can't get over the hump at Brownsburg. I'm curious to see if his son coaching down at Gibson Southern ever decides to leave 3A for a 6A school. He and Kyle Ralph would be at the top of my list if I were a Central Indiana AD. Ralph was an All ACC OL at North Carolina. The lines he builds at New Pal are crazy good. The OL he could build somewhere like Carmel would be very impressive.
If I had to bet I would say Nick Hart will end up coaching a 6A Indy area team at some point before he retires. Coach Ralph I think is at New Pal for life. I’d be shocked if he hasn’t already been offered pretty much a blank check by some of the big schools when jobs have came up. But I agree that he could turn some of those schools into complete juggernauts like what he has done at New Pal.
We’ll likely get another DAC vs SAC matchup in the 5A semi state, so we’ll see how it plays out. The Snider guys over on GID seem to think they’ve already got it won, but those guys have an overinflated opinion of Fort Wayne area football in general.
I think it would be funny with all the talk of Penn’s demise if they made a surprise run to LOS. They’d have no shot to win it, but would be ironic with the narratives around the program currently.
The ‘97 4A title game shows just how much can change in 25 years. Griffith is now a mediocre at best 3A team and HSE is a 6A power and one of the best teams in the state. HSE could beat them by 100 if they played right now if they wanted to.
Also I’ll say I think LC would be better off going back to an option/Wing-T style offense. They’ve run the spread for years now and have seemingly always had mediocre offenses with it (this goes for many DAC teams and could be part of a larger discussion). Implement the flexbone/Wing-T in the middle school and youth levels. Get some continuity in the program and build it from the ground up Center Grove style. But from what I’ve heard about things over there I doubt this will ever happen.
Ralph is from Cincinnati and played at Greater Catholic League South and Division 1 powerhouse Cincinnati St. Xavier. It amazes me he's content at 4A New Pal; however, I have read before on the GID that his wife is a New Pal native. Happy wife, happy life.
Interesting perspective regarding a Wing-T style of offense. Like you said, it's the bread and butter of Center Grove's program and the kids learn it at the youth level. They only go spread when they have a QB like they have this year in the Duke commit but you'll still see it in their offense this year. Thinking locally, Lake Central's best years were with the Wing T. Throw out the Charles Salary pop up State Finals run and LaPorte's best seasons recently were with Sharpe's Power T.
Last edited by Boilernation on Tue Nov 07, 2023 2:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Penn has some good speed at QB and RB. They ripped off some long runs against Valpo. Valpo is a different team now. They have #45,#11, and #48 play a lot more for Valpo in the front 7 now. But I think Penn vs. Crown Point is going to be a really good game. Can’t wait to watch it. That’s my prediction for the regional. I’d take CP in a close game.
Agreed, I am taking CP in a close game
I'm thinking Penn by 3-6. But, I can't get over the fact that Buz is 0-4 lifetime against Penn in Regionals. That's not lost on someone like him. My head doubts that Crown Point is ready to compete with Penn though I firmly believe they will eventually get there very soon. But, I also think the 'Dogs could possibly be completely under the radar with a coaching staff wanting to make a statement. I'm really looking forward to watching this one. I see on Ihsaatv that Region Sports will be streaming it.
Last edited by Boilernation on Tue Nov 07, 2023 3:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
