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Re: 6A North State Champions???
Posted: Fri Dec 01, 2023 6:29 pm
by Jimbo23
scarab527 wrote: ↑Fri Dec 01, 2023 4:40 pm
CP beats Snider. Super overrated and really just feasted on a pretty bad Class 5A this year.
Couldn't agree more!
scarab527 wrote: ↑Fri Dec 01, 2023 4:40 pm
but I think the Dogs could play with Chatard.
Same, I think they could play with them. More than they could with East Central, at least, but idk? I just (despite all of our hate for the transitive property's application in football) find it hard to believe that CP could play with a team that beat Cathedral, who lost to Brownsburg by 14, Center Grove by 7, and Ben Davis by 3. With what I saw Saturday in CP vs BD, I find it hard to believe CP could've played with Brownsburg, Center Grove, Cathedral, or Chatard.
Re: 6A North State Champions???
Posted: Fri Dec 01, 2023 9:49 pm
by scarab527
Jimbo23 wrote: ↑Fri Dec 01, 2023 6:29 pm
scarab527 wrote: ↑Fri Dec 01, 2023 4:40 pm
CP beats Snider. Super overrated and really just feasted on a pretty bad Class 5A this year.
Couldn't agree more!
scarab527 wrote: ↑Fri Dec 01, 2023 4:40 pm
but I think the Dogs could play with Chatard.
Same, I think they could play with them. More than they could with East Central, at least, but idk? I just (despite all of our hate for the transitive property's application in football) find it hard to believe that CP could play with a team that beat Cathedral, who lost to Brownsburg by 14, Center Grove by 7, and Ben Davis by 3. With what I saw Saturday in CP vs BD, I find it hard to believe CP could've played with Brownsburg, Center Grove, Cathedral, or Chatard.
I think they could play with Chatard because of the huge advantage on the lines they’d have. Also, Chatard did beat Cathedral in a pretty wacky game where the lights went out and they had to come back on Saturday morning to finish. Cathedral was leading and looking good that Friday night before the power outage.
Re: 6A North State Champions???
Posted: Fri Dec 01, 2023 10:44 pm
by From the Stands
Jimbo23 wrote: ↑Fri Dec 01, 2023 2:02 pm
nwifbfan wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2023 9:44 pm
CP congrats on a great season! Big wins over Penn and Westfield in playoffs.
Here’s the harsh reality though. Arguably, CP would have lost to 5A Champ Snider, 4A Champ East Central and 3A Champ Chatard.
cridge wrote: ↑Fri Dec 01, 2023 3:34 am
sniper probably. I don't know about east central. but believe it or not, I think they can get Chatard, but Chatard can definitely beat them.
While I am VERY much against selling North State Champions shirts (Semi-State Champs shirts totally different story), I think it is silly to argue that CP loses to Snider (92 Sagarin rating, same as CP) on a neutral field when CP beat a higher rated (and better) Westfield team, and did so handily. Not talking score board, obviously, but CP owned the trenches and game and should have finished them in regulation. Westfield forcing overtime I feel helps my case for how good they were.
The Westfield offense >>> the Snider offense and CP kept them under 260 total yards, I believe. The Snider defense was NASTY and probably could argue it was better than Westfield's but they weren't on Ben Davis' level of good and that's the only Defense this year that slowed down Crown Point's O-line. I've given Snider their flowers and will continue to do so as the 5A State Champs, but those boys were not better than CP, no way. Chatard? Probably. East Central? Was definitely better than CP! I don't think you beat Cincinnati Moeller by 10 (same team that lost to Ben Davis by 3 scores and Center Grove by 1 in OT) and then lose to CP. Idk? Maybe you do? But I don't see it.
For fun (and out of off-season boredom)…
CP 24 FW Snider 14
CP 21 East Central 38
CP 17 Indianapolis Chatard 28
Playing that game.. HSE loses to Brownsburg by 7, and Westfield by one score twice. CP handled Westfield for a majority of that game.
Certain matchups are better than others.. and anything can happen on any given night.
Ben Davis is in the top 25 in every national poll. They were special.
Re: 6A North State Champions???
Posted: Sat Dec 02, 2023 2:01 pm
by Tomter1
Snider D one of the best in the state from what I saw this year, They could beat CP, CP barely got past an average Penn team, put the Westfield game in Westfield and the Rocks win by 10+. Sagarin ratings are not all that accurate.
Re: 6A North State Champions???
Posted: Sat Dec 02, 2023 3:41 pm
by From the Stands
Tomter1 wrote: ↑Sat Dec 02, 2023 2:01 pm
Snider D one of the best in the state from what I saw this year, They could beat CP, CP barely got past an average Penn team, put the Westfield game in Westfield and the Rocks win by 10+. Sagarin ratings are not all that accurate.
What would make you say that Penn team was average?
Re: 6A North State Champions???
Posted: Sat Dec 02, 2023 6:31 pm
by scarab527
Tomter1 wrote: ↑Sat Dec 02, 2023 2:01 pm
Snider D one of the best in the state from what I saw this year, They could beat CP, CP barely got past an average Penn team, put the Westfield game in Westfield and the Rocks win by 10+. Sagarin ratings are not all that accurate.
Snider barely got by Mishawaka who Penn beat by 3 TDs. Penn wasn’t anything special, but it’s been proven with those Zionsville runs a few years ago an average or even mediocre 6A team would be a really good 5A team. There’s a a big discrepancy in the level of play between those two classes.
Re: 6A North State Champions???
Posted: Sun Dec 03, 2023 1:21 am
by Tomter1
From the Stands wrote: ↑Sat Dec 02, 2023 3:41 pm
Tomter1 wrote: ↑Sat Dec 02, 2023 2:01 pm
Snider D one of the best in the state from what I saw this year, They could beat CP, CP barely got past an average Penn team, put the Westfield game in Westfield and the Rocks win by 10+. Sagarin ratings are not all that accurate.
What would make you say that Penn team was average?
They play in very bad conference. They did have a good record, but not much experience. Next year I think they will be a very good team. They did easily beat Mishawka & beat valpo early in season, but I always feel the first 1 or 2 games are not a true model. Maybe a slightly above average team??
Re: 6A North State Champions???
Posted: Sun Dec 03, 2023 1:23 am
by Tomter1
scarab527 wrote: ↑Sat Dec 02, 2023 6:31 pm
Tomter1 wrote: ↑Sat Dec 02, 2023 2:01 pm
Snider D one of the best in the state from what I saw this year, They could beat CP, CP barely got past an average Penn team, put the Westfield game in Westfield and the Rocks win by 10+. Sagarin ratings are not all that accurate.
Snider barely got by Mishawaka who Penn beat by 3 TDs. Penn wasn’t anything special, but it’s been proven with those Zionsville runs a few years ago an average or even mediocre 6A team would be a really good 5A team. There’s a a big discrepancy in the level of play between those two classes.
If Mishawaka would have beat Snider, they would be the 5A champs. That game was for the 5A crown
Re: 6A North State Champions???
Posted: Sun Dec 03, 2023 1:48 am
by Nutsy
Woulda coulda shoulda!
Re: 6A North State Champions???
Posted: Sun Dec 03, 2023 2:02 am
by scarab527
Tomter1 wrote: ↑Sun Dec 03, 2023 1:23 am
scarab527 wrote: ↑Sat Dec 02, 2023 6:31 pm
Tomter1 wrote: ↑Sat Dec 02, 2023 2:01 pm
Snider D one of the best in the state from what I saw this year, They could beat CP, CP barely got past an average Penn team, put the Westfield game in Westfield and the Rocks win by 10+. Sagarin ratings are not all that accurate.
Snider barely got by Mishawaka who Penn beat by 3 TDs. Penn wasn’t anything special, but it’s been proven with those Zionsville runs a few years ago an average or even mediocre 6A team would be a really good 5A team. There’s a a big discrepancy in the level of play between those two classes.
If Mishawaka would have beat Snider, they would be the 5A champs. That game was for the 5A crown
If anything that reinforces my point about how mediocre 5A was this year in general, and how much of a step down in competition there is from 6A to 5A.